Thread: Lifers -- They Didn't Understand the Series???
Started 1 year, 10 months ago by Geeky Randy
UPDATED Sun Feb 17 2008 11:50:23
The Sopranos is a show built around motifs, symbolism and themes. The typical lifer's explanation is:
"It [potential hints to Tony's death] doesn't mean anything"
- or -
"We never see him die."
So? We didn't see Adriana die. Could she still be alive? No. That's common sense, because we never saw her again. But we'll ...
The willfulness and sheer hysteria with which the "lifers" (ugh!) attempt to make their points reflect only a well-deserved insecurity that they have no leg to stand on. Hence RTS's constant invocation of "successful" and "confident" when speaking of his meager attempts to combat the view that Tony is "dead".
There really is no arguing over what's right in front of you with those ...
UPDATED Sun Feb 17 2008 13:34:40
I wouldnt say "Lifers" dont understand the series. I would say they fail to understand the final season (all 21 episodes)which lays out Tony's fate pretty clearly. It is very obvious when taking a look at everything as a whole that Chase created an interpretation that Tony died in Holstens. Its all very logical and reasonable. However, certain...
You're entitled to an opinion, but in my eyes Chase gave us two things: He showed us that CRIME PAYS and that CRIME DOESN'T PAY.
He also gave us every ending possible.
1. Tony lives.
2. One of Tony's closest made men deciding to testify against him and the threat of conviction and prison awaits.
3. Suspicion that Tony may have died.
The ending teaches us a few things: That ...
Kman,
Obviously, this was an opportunistic shot at me. Yet, you are unaware in the flaws in your own "logic":
"MOG was not looking at Tony"
Maybe the stupidest argument in the history of these boards. The scene clearly is directed and edited to have us believe that he is looking in Tony's direction. But hey, he could just be someone who recognizes Tony from the newspaper!!...
The Bacala Quote it can't logically be used as an argument supporting the theory that Tony died since it was proved fallible. I'm not so sure. The show goes out of its way to have Sil say that he didn't hear anything until after the shooting he was present at. They even used an unconventional effect to drive home the point (have we seen a shooting in slow mo with no sound before on ...
The thing about Sil in the Torciano scene, though, is he's not the one being whacked. Bobby was certainly referring to the person dying as the one not hearing anything. And I've said this before, but Sil's quote is, after all, an expression. "I didn't know what was happening until . . ." "It didn't hit me right away that . . ."
RTS
"Creating straw-man arguments to simply ...
I've been an extra on a couple independent films, have dabbled in screenwriting and acting, and have friends who went to film school. This obviously does not make me an expert. But I do have some knowledge on the subject.
About the "hints": Yes, a show like The Sopranos may very well be "too careful about this kind of stuff." I don't deny the "motifs, symbolism, and themes." I...
And I've said this before, but Sil's quote is, after all, an expression. Sure, it's a common expression. But the show went out of its way to dramatize his experience by cutting out the sound and slowing everything down.
Why go to that trouble? Why do it just one episode after Bacala's quote? Now, the answer to those questions is not "Because it's a clue to Tony's death." It's not...
blackdogonmyshoulder replied 1 year, 10 months ago
On Bobby's quote:
Given the flashback at the end of episode 8, would it not actually be a pretty lame 'hint' if in actual fact it just simply happens to Tony at the end of the next episode. The Sopranos is usually more subtle, with the exception of a couple of awful episodes such as Employee of the Month and Christopher. Normally it just puts out a load of ideas and questions about ...
blackdogonmyshoulder replied 1 year, 10 months ago
one other thing that i think is relevant to this ending. (The manner of the ending, not the actual ending). Tony saying to Melfi way back that he was watching a film (Seven?) and it was pretty good but then he thought what does it matter to him, how does it affect his life, how the movie ends. I think the makers may have been asking the same question with the end of the Sopranos. Does ...
Bubbles, The worst academic experience of my life was my freshman year at college when I took a course entitled 'The Gothic Novel'. So I know all about the works from the period- from Walpole's 'Castle of Otranto', Lewis' 'The Monk', to 'Jekyll & Hyde', and so on. The problem with you trying to relate this antiquated school of thought/literature is that it is predates the establishment...
Chinawhite252 wrote: dude, it's "i'll make him an offer he CAN'T refuse" change that bro. your better than that. come on Obviously you've never seen The Godfather: Part II where Vito ACTUALLY says the line. You're thinking of the first one where Michael (who wasn't even there) tells Kay about it. It's easier to not challenge me, so do yourself that favor or else you WILL lose. I'll...
Who did Tony hurt? And since when does anyone on this show actually get approval to kill someone? Every day is a gift...Does it have to be a pair of socks?
UPDATED Sun Apr 6 2008 15:47:39 "But David Chase said in an interview that, "Everybody thought Pussy disappearing was the cliffhanger. But it wasn't. It was just lazy storytelling." That's interesting. I never heard that. I always thought that the "Pussy missing" thing was setting up the Season 2 plot of Pussy as informant (of course at the point of filming that episode they never knew if...
Yes, the "Torciano scene" is the one with Sil and Gerry Torciano sitting with two women in a restaurant, which turns to slow-motion as blood sprays onto Sil. The "Baccala flashback" is when Tony remembers Bobby's infamous quote on the lake, triggered by holding the AR-10 rifle Bobby gave him for his birthday. As for eating an orange, Tony did so early in the final episode, and many feel this translates...
And just as a side note, I think both Tony dying and Tony living are conventional endings. That's why Chase thought the series couldn't end with either one. That's why the series didn't end with either one.
UPDATED Sun Apr 6 2008 16:25:26 John Hurt's character told Tony that Pussy was a rat. Are you suggesting that Pussy was never actually meant to be an informant until the early writing stages of Season 2? I've always thought this. There's nothing in season 1 that would indicate that Chase nor anyone else actually wanted Pussy to be the rat. Tony's revelation that "It's fuqqing Jimmy!" is too...
Sermon work. Looking fwd to continuing our "Do You... Sermon work. Looking fwd to continuing our "Do You Not Yet Understand" series Sunday with, "Do You Not Yet Understand There Is Hope"
10:02 AM Sep 24th
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