Thread: LIBERALS are not realistic abut political reality.

Totally understood - so I want proof! Dont't give me 2003 cases that are being adjudicated by Italian officials - give me current poof that torture has and is being done and or sponsored by the US since the beginning of this year. I'm not saying that I don't believe that you'll have instances - but I want to see proof. Until I see proof - torture isn't currently being done by the US.

My Bad, sorry! But please do sign the petition. Carry on

lyris wrote: Are we forgetting the subject? What is wrong with you guys? I hope at least some of you signed the petition.Please sign this petition. Huh? Wrong thread?

Now, Yuri...you know that no amount of proof will ever be of sufficient quantity to meet the "moderate" threshold...

lyris wrote: Don't get me wrong I like Dennis, we really need him, but there comes a time you have to be practical. I hope we do have single payer health insurance, but reality says neither the gop nor the blue dogs are going to go for it. The gop can take a giant leap, but we need the blue dogs unfortunately. As for what I am, I'm not sure if I'm a Liberal Moderate or a Moderate Liberal. Does it matter? I'm also...

^^^ So true Victor. So sadly true!

Victor Kermit wrote: Now, Yuri...you know that no amount of proof will ever be of sufficient quantity to meet the "moderate" threshold... How about just simple logic? Now that it’s widely known -- beyond the shadow of a doubt -- that the U.S. has been a torture state for years, it can be viewed as an extraordinary claim to say that suddenly, overnight, all the criminal abuses of detainees have stopped. As such, the onus of...

lyris wrote: Don't get me wrong I like Dennis, we really need him, but there comes a time you have to be practical.[...] The difference between Dennis Kucinich and the rest of the supposed Progressives is Kucinich is a fighter and a fighter is what we need. It's true that Kucinich is bucking the majority and probably will be defeated, but that doesn't mean he's finished. All fighters get knocked on their ass now and then...

here's one: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13672 Quote: While torture under the Bush administration was horrible, at least it has stopped. Right? Wrong. Jeremy Scahill (the reporter who broke most of the stories on Blackwater) says that a military police unit at Guantanamo regularly brutalizes unarmed prisoners, including gang-beating them, breaking their bones, gouging their eyes and dousing them with...

greyowl wrote: Victor Kermit wrote: It's not a hard job to be the president if you're committed to helping working Americans. If you fight and go down, people can accept that. But they won't accept caving. It's betrayal. "...it insults their intelligence and it makes them very angry..." Well said. Hey. Somebody said once that "It's hard work!" Kidding. The whole thing was well said....