Thread: I am sick of people saying Jack and Ennis are gay!
Started 3 months, 2 weeks ago by dummwitt
I apologize if this has been posted before, but as this is one of the most talked-about films on the website, I was unable to look through all of the pages of commentary.
I believe that GLBT activist Amy AndrxE9; said it best, so I'm going to essentially copy/paste what she said regarding this whole thing.
"Brokeback Mountain is not a movie about gay people, and there are no gay people in ...
Jack and Ennis were closeted homosexuals. Do you understand what that means? And Ennis in particular was homophobic and self-loathing. Ennis and Jack married and had kids because that's what they thought was expected of them. And are you really that naive to think that the boys had "emotional" relationships with their wives? Please. You and this "reviewer" obviously do not understand homophobia...
Wow, such hostility.
First and foremost, Amy Andre is not a reviewer. She is an author/speaker and advocate for the GLBT community. She merely uses the reception of this film as an example of biphobia. She has two Master's degrees, one in human sexual studies, so please, do not attempt to belittle her opinion by painting her as an incompetent moron. She is well-respected in her field and ...
GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40 replied 3 months, 2 weeks ago
Still, if you remember, Ennis was physically attracted to (forgive me, I can't for the life of me remember her name) the waitress. He easily could have lived out his life alone. Instead, he approached her and started a relationship with her.
Actually, Ennis neither approaches Cassie the waitress, nor does he start a relationship with her. She approaches him. It is very doubtful that ...
I stand corrected. That is true. However, he could have easily turned her down and simply not met with her anymore. There must have been some reason for him to agree to a relationship with her. Can we agree on that much?
I stand corrected. That is true. However, he could have easily turned her down and simply not met with her anymore. There must have been some reason for him to agree to a relationship with her. Can we agree on that much?
He didn't turn her down because he was frightened of being discovered as a queer man, and Cassie was a convenient beard. Nothing more.
Hi dummwitt:
It was the intention of the author, Annie Proulx, to show what it was like in Wyoming of the x91;60s and x91;70s for GAY men. Not bisexual men. Not straight men. GAY men.
So, she created her characters, Jack and Ennis to be GAY men. Not bisexual men. Not straight men. GAY men.
Now that we have this as our starting point, we can see what it was like for them and how ...
by dummwitt:
First and foremost, Amy Andre is not a reviewer. She is an author/speaker and advocate for the GLBT community. She merely uses the reception of this film as an example of biphobia.
Correct. She has used Brokeback to further her own agenda, ignoring what it is really about and what it really shows, in the process.
Still, if you remember, Ennis was physically ...
by dummwitt:
There must have been some reason for him to agree to a relationship with her. Can we agree on that much?
Correct and yes.
She was his beard.
As the most homophobic character in the film, Ennis needed a beard to be able to continue his faxE7;ade.
Dummwitt:
Firstly, I did not mean to come off as hostile. I would say more annoyed, because of the title of your thread. That came off as arrogant imo, hence my reply. Also, I did not mean to belittle your experience as a bisexual woman, but a lot of people come on here thinking Ennis and Jack are straight/bi just because they had sex with women, which I think is highly ignorant. And sorry, ...
GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40 replied 3 months, 2 weeks ago
Does Ennis seem like a man with a plan?
He's like a dog chasing cars - he wouldn't know what to do with one if he caught it. He just does things.
Alma's got plans.
Cassie's got plans.
They're schemers. Schemers trying to control things in their little worlds. Ennis is not a schemer. He tries to show people how pathetic their attempts to control things really are...
...
Good point. I always think it's different for men anyway, because for men sex is entirely different from (and often even SEPARATE from) love. This means men like the feelings of pleasure, and it often doesn't matter where they're coming from. ------------ well YOU must be coming from Alice in Wonderland Sport. once one gets to say 16 [10 for gals] one works out that women are totally more cunning than men, and in fact that goes...
In terms of men who have sex with other men but refuse to go beyond sex; that's usually because they DON'T WANT TO get into the emotional side, rather than because they COULD NEVER feel that way for a man. They usually have an established heterosexual lifestyle and a stronger attraction to women so are terrified at the idea of a man compromising this. Not so terrified that they'll stop having sex with them though.... I could...
Guy, yep, it made several assumptions about me - that I am gay (presumably male), cuddly, PC and am backed by millions by my government (presumably American). Truth is I just happen to love this movie and like to participate in discussions about it. This board seems to draw WAY more than it's share of trolls, even compared to other movies with gay characters. There are lots of other posters on the board, though, who are very insightful...
People keep trying to think that it's an either/or issue, and that a man is either gay or straight. It's rarely ever that simple. Healthy young men, if they have the right opportunities, will respond sexually to just about anything if the mood and circumstances are right. Like I keep saying, the Kinsey studies showed that only five percent of men are 100-percent gay, but only five percent are 100-percent straight either. The other 90...
Hi santa, and all, I've got into terrible arguments with gay friends on this subject. The crude definition of 'gay' is enjoying sex with ones own sex; that's fair enough I suppose, but love seems largely seperate from the act of sex, with sex being a physical 'icing on the cake'. I do think Jack was nearer to the broad definition of a gay man, so that when Ennis was not there for him physically, then he sought...
I'm a bisexual guy, so I don't think people are either gay or straight. But, seeing the characters, I really don't think either of them would have ever had a homosexual experience with any other men. They really were just two people who fell in love and it happened to be a homosexual romance. Didn't they even say at one point during the movie that they never felt attracted to men before? But after they found each other,...
There must have been some reason for him to agree to a relationship with her. Cassie wanted someone to rub her sore feet, and Ennis had nothing better to do at that moment. There is no real passion between them. It's a pretty one-way relationship. At some point Ennis simply stops returning her calls. For Ennis, sex with women appears to be a somewhat joyless social obligation.
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