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Thread: 400MW Generator pulling too many MVARS (lagging power factor)


Started 2 months, 3 weeks ago by GamecockEngr
We have checked the voltage meters used to sync and they are good as are the PT's used to read the voltage. We just installed a new excitation system. The generator terminal voltage is controlling to the proper set point and the dc is balanced perfectly. Here is the problem...when we tie on the MVARS are running ~60-80 MVARS at almost no load (5-10 MW). Usually we run 0-10 MVARS at 0-10 MW. The...
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Forum: Electric motors & motor controls engineering  Electric motors & motor controls engineering - forum profile
Total authors: 11 authors
Total thread posts: 22 posts
Thread activity: no new posts during last week
Domain info for: eng-tips.com

Other posts in this thread:

davidbeach replied 2 months, 3 weeks ago
MVArs in or MVArs out? In would indicate under excitation while out would indicate over excitation. As to cause, well there isn't nearly enough information available, other than to suggest that the new excitation system wasn't commissioned properly.

GamecockEngr replied 2 months, 3 weeks ago
I can give you as much info as you need. MVARS OUT. I am hesitant to give too much specifics because in the off chance someone reads this I dont want to get in any hot water if we have a warranty claim on the OEM.

davidbeach replied 2 months, 3 weeks ago
What operating mode? Voltage control? Watt/VAr control? Power factor control?

GamecockEngr replied 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Mode is voltage control. 22kv generator terminal. 230kv high side. Metering Pt's are good as are meters. You think they are raising field current too high. Field (rotor) and stator are newly re-wound.

GTstartup replied 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Why don't you just reduce the voltage setpoint until you get the VARs you want? Plus check you are not actually in Field Current control.

GTstartup replied 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Also check your old AVR settings against your new settings, especially any static droop or actual value voltage bias (compensatation for PT inaccuracies)

GTstartup replied 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Actually, since this is a new AVR you should be asking whoever installed and commissioned it

dpc replied 2 months, 3 weeks ago
I would verify you are actually in automatic mode of some kind. If in voltage control, you can try lowering the voltage setpoint - the vars should come down. You could also try putting the AVR in manual and try adjusting the field voltage to see if you have any control at all. I suspect the AVR is not getting the correct sensing voltage - could be a line-neutral voltage when it is ...

ScottyUK replied 2 months, 3 weeks ago
( Have you checked the simple things, like is the GSU transformer's OLTC at the same tap position as it was prior to the upgrade? Three or four taps would probably give you 80 MVAr on a unit that size. , )

nawao replied 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Invert the polarity of the droop CT and see how is the behaviour

 

Top contributing authors

Name
Posts
GTstartup
5
user's latest post:
400MW Generator pulling too many...
Published (2010-01-08 10:57:00)
Please read the OP again. Quote " when we tie on the MVARS are running ~60-80 MVARS at almost no load (5-10 MW). Usually we run 0-10 MVARS at 0-10 MW. The power factor is .1-.3" The voltage setpoint at synchronizing is set by the synchronizer.  It is unlikely that the voltages match just at synchronizing and then just after synchronizing the system voltage changes, or even if the AVR setpoint changes. It is more...
GamecockEngr
3
user's latest post:
400MW Generator pulling too many...
Published (2009-12-16 17:31:00)
Mode is voltage control. 22kv generator terminal. 230kv high side. Metering Pt's are good as are meters. You think they are raising field current too high. Field (rotor) and stator are newly re-wound.
davidbeach
2
user's latest post:
400MW Generator pulling too many...
Published (2009-12-16 17:24:00)
What operating mode?  Voltage control?  Watt/VAr control?  Power factor control?
ScottyUK
2
user's latest post:
400MW Generator pulling too many...
Published (2009-12-24 12:27:00)
( Utility machines are usually despatched separately on load and reactive load: PF control ties them together, so a change in MW also requires adjustment to the AVR. One more job than there needs to be!    , )
dpc
2
user's latest post:
400MW Generator pulling too many...
Published (2010-01-05 18:14:00)
( Quote: Synchronizing with big differences in voltage magnitude a large MVAR power flow will appear across the CB as it is closed. We know.     , )
electricpete
2
user's latest post:
400MW Generator pulling too many...
Published (2010-01-05 21:33:00)
( Clarification in bold: Quote: ...One other thing, the vars at a given voltage depends not only on generator and it's control, but on the grid operating conditions .... which may have changed.   , )
waross
2
user's latest post:
400MW Generator pulling too many...
Published (2010-01-08 09:18:00)
( Good point Pete. If the grid voltage drops and the AVR does not make a correction, expect a lot of VARs. , )
nawao
1
user's latest post:
400MW Generator pulling too many...
Published (2009-12-18 07:46:00)
Invert the polarity of the droop CT and see how is the behaviour
bartb102
1
user's latest post:
400MW Generator pulling too many...
Published (2009-12-24 10:37:00)
If this is a parallelling generator then why not operate in PF mode? In AVR mode if voltage setting is higher than utility voltage excitation will increase trying to raise terminal voltage into an infinite load, increasing vars output. Generator output power (KW) is controlled by energy source (turbine, diesel, etc.) only, not load.  
m3ntosan
1
user's latest post:
400MW Generator pulling too many...
Published (2010-01-05 18:03:00)
( Synchronizing with big differences in voltage magnitude a large MVAR power flow will appear across the CB as it is closed. , )

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