The Matter of England...why "matter"? | Thread profile

I am not a literary scholar. I am not generally a reader of medieval English romances. But I have come across the phrase "the Matter of England" in reference to said non-Arthurian English romances several times. I know what the Matter of England is, but no one seems to explain why they're "the Matter" of England. Did the word "matter" mean something other than what it's usually used to ...

Matter means something that is written down or set in print. edit - The word is still used in this sense. Think of reading matter.

No, that specific sense is obsolete, as the OED entry for it notes. Quote: matter, n1 8. The subject of a book, speech, etc.; a theme, a topic, a subject of exposition. In early use also: a narrative, an account, a tale. Obs.

Quote: Originally Posted by aldiboronti No, that specific sense is obsolete, as the OED entry for it notes. Well, shit. I am pretty sure I have heard (and used) matter to mean a tale. I know I have used heard it used to refer to reading material, but who am I to argue with the OED.

Can something be marked obsolete by the OED and still be in circulation? I'm pretty sure I've come across it in modern use that way (albeit not very often).

Quote: But I have come across the phrase "the Matter of England" in reference to said non-Arthurian English romances several times. ??????? I'm confused. Several different countries have characteristic legends, which are said to be the "Matter" of that coubtry. The Matter of France was Charlemagne. I suspect The Matter of Spain ...

Quote: Originally Posted by CalMeacham I'm confused. Several different countries have characteristic legends, which are said to be the "Matter" of that coubtry. The Matter of France was Charlemagne. I suspect The Matter of Spain was El Cid. My understanding was that The Matter of Britain WAS Arthurian legend, not non-Arthurian. I've read it referred to that...

Quote: Originally Posted by Mangetout Can something be marked obsolete by the OED and still be in circulation? I'm pretty sure I've come across it in modern use that way (albeit not very often). I'm sure it's still used by medieaval scholars in reference to the Arthurian legends, etc, but I personally have never seen it used ...

I meant that I've seen it in modern contexts as defined in the dictionary - meaning 'the story of...', but not necessarily relating to England. I can't recall any specific examples, and it may have been a purposeful archaism when I did see it - in book titles and the like.

So, saying "What's the matter with you" is basically saying - What's your story?