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Just a note...if you don't have the fundamentals down in just about anything...you aren't very good at it. It can easily be debated that many who are called fundamentalists in both christianity and islam are blatantly ignoring many fundamentals of those religions. Many atheists are well aware of this fact. It's not unusual to see atheists saying that christians are supposed to love everyone. Most of these atheists say this...

Quote: Originally Posted by JoeH So, to (finally) link this back again: given all of that...I think that we should be able to justify the moral standards which we try to use to guide our actions through universally acceptable grounds (reason) which are not intrinsically personal and unable to be proved (faith), which allow us to give fair hearing to contrasting evidence and are susceptible to change (reason) rather than impervious (faith)....

Quote: Originally Posted by JoeH I am not judging it by Western values. I am judging it with reason, which is universal. I think that there are Western values which are immoral by reason. I think there are non-Western values which are preferable to Western values, and vice versa. Your "reason" is tainted by Western culture. It has to be, since that is what you were raised in. We know the dangers that inbreeding entails...

Quote: Originally Posted by kellygirl Does Fundie mean fundamentalist? Snake handling sounds more cultic to me. If you take fundamentalist in its usual sense of literalist / inerrantist, it's a fair usage. Plenty of fundies are persuaded by Mark 16:17 that they can speak in tongues; snake handlers are just taking their literalism one verse further.

Quote: Hell, we have been broadcasting radio in all directions for eighty years! Some of those signals are off in intergalactic space by now. What is going to destroy those? I am not sure that there has been enough time yet for those signals to reach the space between galaxies. Do you think only 80 light years is enough to reach intergalactic space ? My gut feel is that that is not nearly enough time. But those old braodcasts of the...

Quote: Originally Posted by blankstare Now intelligent morons may have some inane desire to insist this "natural" connection does not exist in them and that is derived from a primitive, ignorant form of wishful thinking, but again...I think that is laughable. 'Wishful thinking' is just one element of it, and I would not label it as a primitive one. 'Primitive' people had 'primitive' religious...

Oo, the troll is back! Hi, troll! Care to contribute substantively and actually answer questions? Nah, didn't think so.

Quote: Originally Posted by Jacques I do not mean that the US should USE the Christian gospel as a tool for no other purpose but to save us from Islamic Terrorism. I do contend that the spread of the gospel of grace for its own sake has the by product of turning the potential murderer away from a "Kill to Go to Allah's Heaven" mentality. Sorry but your Gospels will not change these zealots from their wayward path....

Quote: Originally Posted by nihilist1888 I think the same can be said for those who erect their altar to the Prophet of Logic. I've met amazing Christians, and amazing atheists. It's not the belief that is flawed, just the believer. I agree with you but not just the believer... it is how that believer believes.... I use the KISS approach keep it simple stupid.... because the more you add the more you run into people who want to make...

Quote: Originally Posted by kellygirl I was not talking about ALL religions, I was talking about somebody making a toad into their god - in this case they are creating their own god for a toad cannot communicate with them. On your other points, I do agree with you that God is fair and people will be judged according to their choices. The fact is, people choose to seek after many things. For some it Jesus, for some it is money, for others it...